Robert Pollin: Study Finds Green Economy Produces 3X More Jobs Than the Fossil Fuel Energy Industry

Award-winning Investigative Journalist Robert Parry (1949-2018)

Award-winning investigative journalist and founder/editor of ConsortiumNews.com, Robert Parry has passed away. His ground-breaking work uncovering Reagan-era dirty wars in Central America and many other illegal and immoral policies conducted by successive administrations and U.S. intelligence agencies, stands as an inspiration to all in journalists working in the public interest.

Robert had been a regular guest on our Between The Lines and Counterpoint radio shows -- and many other progressive outlets across the U.S. over four decades.

His penetrating analysis of U.S. foreign policy and international conflicts will be sorely missed, and not easily replaced. His son Nat Parry writes a tribute to his father: Robert Parry’s Legacy and the Future of Consortiumnews.

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The Resistance Starts Now!

Between The Lines' coverage and resource compilation of the Resistance Movement

"The man who predicted Trump presidential win now says Trump impeachment could happen," AM Joy with Joy Reid, MSNBC, Jan. 21, 2018
"Sketchy Kazakh money finds its way into Trump dealings," The Rachel Maddow Show, MSNBC, Jan. 15, 2018
"Red flags seen in many Trump real estate deals," The Rachel Maddow Show, MSNBC, Jan. 15, 2018
"Secret Money: How Trump Made Millions Selling Condos To Unknown Buyers," BuzzFeed, Jan. 12, 2018
"The Scandals of Donald Trump: Presidential Edition," The Atlantic, May 15, 2017
"Here's what we know so far about Team Trump's ties to Russian interests," Washington Post's ongoing compilation
"What Comey Was Investigating, Explained," The Moscow Project, Center for American Progress

"Donald Trump's Financial Ties to Russian Oligarchs and Mobsters Detailed In Explosive New Documentary from the Netherlands," Dutch TV documentary, Alternet.org, May 12, 2017
Ongoing compilation of Trump's creeping authoritarianism," MotherJones.com
Full resource list ...

SPECIAL REPORT: "The Resistance - Women's March 2018 - Hartford, Connecticut" Jan. 20, 2018

Selected speeches from the Women's March in Hartford, Connecticut 2018, recorded and produced by Scott Harris

SPECIAL REPORT: "No Fracking Waste in CT!" Jan. 14, 2018

Jen Siskind Jennifer Siskind, local coordinator for Food and Water Watch, describes the campaign to stop fracking waste in Connecticut, which so far has led to fracking waste bans in 34 towns around the state. Interviewed by Richard Hill on Mic Check, WPKN Radio, Bridgeport, CT

SPECIAL REPORT: "Resistance Round Table: The Unraveling Continues..." Jan. 13, 2018

Lindsay Kanaly The panel discusses Trump's long history of racism and the Republican voter suppression juggernaut confronting Democrats leading up to the 2018 elections. Special guest: Lindsay Kanaly, a lead organizer of the Women's Marches planned for Jan. 20, 2018. Panel: Scott Harris, Ruthanne Baumgartner and Richard Hill on Resistance Roundtable, WPKN Radio, Bridgeport, CT.

SPECIAL REPORT: "Capitalism to the ash heap?" Richard Wolff, Jan. 2, 2018

Richard Wolff, Economics professor Richard Wolff declares U.S. capitalism to be beyond repair and suggests the need for a radical alternative. Interviewed by Richard Hill

SPECIAL REPORT: Maryn McKenna, author of "Big Chicken", Dec. 7, 2017

Maryn McKenna, investigative journalist and author of Big Chicken, talks about the widespread use and dangers of antibiotics in commercial poultry, beef and fruit production. Interview by Bill Duesing, Richard Hill and Guy Beardsly on WPKN's Organic Farm Stand.

SPECIAL REPORT: Nina Turner's address, Working Families Party Awards Banquet, Dec. 14, 2017

Nina Turner, president of Our Revolution, talks about the fight ahead for progressives as she receives the Working Families Organization Award for Exceptional Leadership Towards Advancing Progress. The event was held in Meriden, CT. Produced by Richard Hill.

SPECIAL REPORT: Mic Check, Dec. 12, 2017

Working Families Party of CT talks strategy and issues for 2018.
Lindsay Farrell, executive director of the Working Families Party of Connecticut, discusses the state's electoral landscape and lays out the issues and strategies that could lead to progressive victories in 2018. Interviewed by Richard Hill.

SPECIAL REPORT: Resistance Roundtable, Dec. 9, 2017

Disturbing developments in the Trump/Republican Agenda
Focus on the tax bill, destruction of our public lands, North Korea and Trump's private CIA. Panel: Scott Harris, Ruthanne Baumgartner and Richard Hill. Special guest: Jo Macallero of Rise and Resist.

SPECIAL REPORT: On Tyranny - one year later, Nov. 28, 2017

Professor Timothy Snyder, author of the highly acclaimed resistance manual On Tyranny, discusses his book and offers a fresh assessment of the state of our beleaguered republic. Timothy Snyder, history professor at Yale, is introduced by Stanley Heller, administrator of Promoting Enduring Peace, a Connecticut-based organization that sponsored this event at the United Church Parish House in New Haven on Nov. 28. A brief interview with Snyder conducted by WPKN radio producer, Richard Hill, follows his talk.

SPECIAL REPORT: Mic Check, Nov. 12, 2017

Lynne Ide, director of program and policy with the Universal Health Care Foundation of Connecticut, talks about the current state of health care coverage in Connecticut. Interviewed by Richard Hill, WPKN radio producer

SPECIAL REPORT: Resistance Roundtable, Nov. 11, 2017

Focus on the Republican tax plan, the just-released autopsy on the Democratic Party, and Internet censorship by Google, Facebook and Youtube. Including an interview with Hilary Grant, a lead organizer with Action Together Connecticut, who discusses the local results of the recent election, with hosts Richard Hill, Scott Harris and Ruth Baumgartner WPKN producers

SPECIAL REPORT: Rainy Day Radio, Nov. 7, 2017

Two leaders from Redneck Revolt, an anti-racist, anti-capitalist movement, talk about their work organizing with white working class people in Suffolk County, New York. Interviewed by Richard Hill, WPKN radio producer

SPECIAL REPORT: Rainy Day Radio, Nov. 7, 2017

Bruce Gagnon, coordinator for the Global Network Against Weapons and Nuclear Power in Space, describes the extent of -- and motives underlying -- the vast US network of military bases around the globe. Interviewed by Richard Hill, WPKN radio producer

SPECIAL REPORT: Resisting U.S. JeJu Island military base in South Korea, Oct. 24, 2017

Joyakol, South Korean peace activist and singer, discusses the crisis on the Korean peninsula and focuses on the resistance to the U.S. huge military base being constructed on Jeju Island. The event was sponsored by the Greater New Haven Peace Council and this audio was recorded by Richard Hill, WPKN producer.
Joyakol discusses Americans' biggest misconceptions about the conflict between North and South Korea and the U.S., Interview by Richard Hill, WPKN producer.

SPECIAL REPORT: John Allen, Out in New Haven

John Allen, founding director of the New Haven Pride Center, Connecticut, talks about his new LGBTQ television show, Out in New Haven, which presents a range of political and cultural issues to the community. Interviewed by Richard Hill on WPKN's Rainy Day Tuesday, Jan. 2, 2018.

2017 Gandhi Peace Awards

Promoting Enduring Peace presented its Gandhi Peace Award jointly to renowned consumer advocate Ralph Nader and BDS founder Omar Barghouti on April 23, 2017.

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THANK YOU TO EVERYONE...

who helped make our 25th anniversary with Jeremy Scahill a success!

For those who missed the event, or were there and really wanted to fully absorb its import, here it is in video

Jeremy Scahill keynote speech, part 1 from PROUDEYEMEDIA on Vimeo.

Jeremy Scahill keynote speech, part 2 from PROUDEYEMEDIA on Vimeo.

Between The Lines on Stitcher

Between The Lines Presentation at the Left Forum 2016

"How Do We Build A Mass Movement to Reverse Runaway Inequality?" with Les Leopold, author of "Runaway Inequality: An Activist's Guide to Economic Justice,"May 22, 2016, John Jay College of Criminal Justice, The City University of New York, 860 11th Ave. (Between 58th and 59th), New York City. Between The Lines' Scott Harris and Richard Hill moderated this workshop. Listen to the audio/slideshows and more from this workshop.

Listen to audio of the plenary sessions from the weekend.

JEREMY SCAHILL: Oscar-nominated documentary filmmaker "Dirty Wars"

Listen to the full interview (30:33) with Jeremy Scahill, an award-winning investigative journalist with the Nation Magazine, correspondent for Democracy Now! and author of the bestselling book, "Blackwater: The Rise of the World's Most Powerful Mercenary Army," about America's outsourcing of its military. In an exclusive interview with Counterpoint's Scott Harris on Sept. 16, 2013, Scahill talks about his latest book, "Dirty Wars, The World is a Battlefield," also made into a documentary film under the same title, and was nominated Dec. 5, 2013 for an Academy Award in the Best Documentary Feature category.

Listen to Scott Harris Live on WPKN Radio

Between The Lines' Executive Producer Scott Harris hosts a live, weekly talk show, Counterpoint, from which some of Between The Lines' interviews are excerpted. Listen every Monday evening from 8 to 10 p.m. EDT at www.WPKN.org (Follows the 5-7 minute White Rose Calendar.)

Counterpoint in its entirety is archived after midnight ET Monday nights, and is available for at least a year following broadcast in WPKN Radio's Archives.

You can also listen to full unedited interview segments from Counterpoint, which are generally available some time the day following broadcast.

Subscribe to Counterpoint bulletins via our subscriptions page.

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Study Finds Green Economy Produces Three Times More Jobs Than Fossil Fuel Industry

Posted March 16, 2016

Interview with Robert Pollin, professor of economics at the University of Massachusetts, Amherst, conducted by Melinda Tuhus

For decades, many conservatives in the U.S. have asserted that we can either have jobs or save the environment, but not both. But the green economy is gaining a foothold, mostly through the development of solar and wind energy production – as well as through the promotion of energy efficiency, which creates lots of jobs. Today the old economic argument that it’s jobs vs. the environment seems even more ridiculous, as more, and more jobs are being lost in the fossil fuel sector.

The last year the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics reported on the number of green jobs in the United States, they found that 3.1 million people were employed in green jobs in 2010, representing 2.4 percent of all jobs nationwide that year. By many accounts, that number increases substantially every year.

Between The Lines’ Melinda Tuhus spoke with Robert Pollin, distinguished professor of economics and co-director of the Political Economy Research Institute at the University of Massachusetts at Amherst. He has spent much of his career studying green jobs, and in 2014 was the primary author of a study commissioned by the Center for American Progress titled: “Green Growth: A U.S. Program for Controlling Climate Change and Expanding Job Opportunities.” Pollin’s research broke down many aspects of job creation in both the old and new energy economies and concluded that the green economy produces three times as many jobs than the fossil fuel energy economy does. Here, Pollin talks about his study and the urgency of addressing climate change.

ROBERT POLLIN: The CAP study really tries to do two big, big things, which is first of all to try to develop a program to drive CO2 emissions in the U.S. down by 40 percent as of 2030, and I try to show how this can be done realistically, number one. And then number two, that the project of accomplishing that is not going to be a burden on economic growth or job opportunities. To the contrary, it’s a positive source of job opportunities through investment in energy efficiency and renewal energy, which in my view are the two key features of any green economy program.

BETWEEN THE LINES: You know, people on the right have been saying for decades that it’s jobs versus the environment, which seems ridiculous. Do you think they say that because they’re in the pocket of the fossil fuel industry?

ROBERT POLLIN: Well, some of them are, but even if they are, you know, I’ve debated people like this and I don’t really care if they’re in the pocket, they still have to produce research and maybe their research is right. (Laughs) You know, I’ve dealt with their research on its own terms. You could say I’m in the pocket of the environmentalists or leftists, because I do get funded by different progressive groups and environmental groups. But the point is, we have to divide it into two pieces. There’s no question that jobs are going to be lost in the fossil fuel sector; that’s a given if we’re going to transition out of fossil fuels and into clean energy, by definition jobs are going to be lost in the fossil fuel sector. And that is an important question and actually something I’m working on now is developing what we could call a just transition program for people and communities who will be affected. So that’s one thing. And that’s a big driver. So you have politicians in coal country and so forth who are jumping up and down, and I understand their concern; it’s real. But the broader question is, when we do a transition out of fossil fuels and into the green economy, considering the economy as a whole, you will get many more jobs. My rough estimate is about three times more jobs per dollar of expenditure by building and maintaining a green energy economy as opposed to maintaining the fossil fuel economy. We know that by building the green economy – and by green economy I’m really talking about two things, renewables is one, and the other is efficiency. Of the two, the single most important to me is efficiency. Anyway, building the green economy is good for jobs.

BETWEEN THE LINES: Bob Pollin, for decades peace people have been saying that if you put a million dollars into military spending it creates x number of jobs, but if you spend the same amount on teachers or health care workers, it creates more jobs. But how much is that a function of military-related job, or in this case, fossil fuel-related jobs, just being better paying jobs?

ROBERT POLLIN: It’s about 20 percent, is the answer, with the green economy. The average job in what we’ll call the fossil fuel economy is going to pay about 20 percent more than the average job in the green sectors. Keep in mind I’m saying there’s 300 percent more jobs, so when you break that down in terms of numbers of jobs, that still means there’s more good-paying jobs in the green sector; it’s just that they are a lower percentage. So there’s more good-paying jobs in the green sector, there’s more medium paying jobs and there’s more bad jobs. There’s more of everything.

BETWEEN THE LINES: But how did you come up with the three times more number?

ROBERT POLLIN: So, it’s government statistics. The U.S. government does surveys of business entities, public, private operations, and in the surveys they basically ask the business, what do you do when you turn on the lights? How do you produce the things you produce? How do you combine workers? What do you pay the workers? How much are you using in terms of equipment, machinery, buildings, land and so forth? That’s the raw material I’m working with. And then the government organizes that material into an extremely useful set of data called the Input Output model. So Inputs are basically referring to all the things that people do every day to produce things; and then the Outputs is the things they produce. When you use that table as a research tool you are able to get those ratios. The way I personally got into the research was exactly to address the question that you posed at the beginning, which is jobs versus the environment. Do we really have to think of it as that way? Of course everyone is concerned about protecting the environment. In particular, we have to care a whole lot about stabilizing the climate. So the question is, does that have to be done by sacrificing job opportunities? That really was my research question, and after many years of working on it, my answer is no.

For more information on the Political Economy Research Institute at the University of Massachusetts, Amherst, visit www.peri.umass.edu.